Tomcat vs Apache

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Tomcat vs Apache

Chris-9
I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with
Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something explaining
the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a large applet hosted
on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead.  Is this feasable?
TIA.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Anthony Carlos
I think I need to ask a question before offering any information.

When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's
browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of
servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)?

-Anthony

On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:

I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed
with Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something
explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a large
applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead.  Is
this feasable? TIA.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Eric VERGNAUD
In reply to this post by Chris-9
If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent.  
However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server  
side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database,  
or a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind  
of intelligence.

For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on  
Servlets and JSP, both based on Java.

Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick  
to Tomcat.

Le 18 mai 05 à 16:37, Chris a écrit :

> I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed  
> with Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something  
> explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a  
> large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache  
> instead.  Is this feasable? TIA.
>
> Chris
>
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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

molecool
In reply to this post by Chris-9
Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-)

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <[hidden email]>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:37 AM
Subject: Tomcat vs Apache


> I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with
> Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something explaining
> the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a large applet hosted
> on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead.  Is this feasable?
> TIA.
>
> Chris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Chris-9
In reply to this post by Anthony Carlos
> I think I need to ask a question before offering any information.
>
> When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's
> browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of
> servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)?

We have a large java applet that runs in the client's browser window.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Chris-9
In reply to this post by Eric VERGNAUD
> If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent.  
> However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server  
> side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database,  or
> a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind  of
> intelligence.
>
> For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on  
> Servlets and JSP, both based on Java.
>
> Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick  to
> Tomcat.

Ah, okay.  The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was
to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Chris-9
In reply to this post by molecool
> Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-)

Thanks.  That was pretty much what I wanted to find out.  BTW, I keep
hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction.  How does that
work?

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Anthony Carlos
In reply to this post by Chris-9
Chris:

I guess that the applet is just a static file that is served to the
client's browser window. Therefore, ANY web server would work just
fine. There are no appreciable differences between Tomcat and Apache
for your requirements so far. They act very similarly when serving
static content. Some can spout off about performance, configurability,
etc... But, if you've got it working on Tomcat, I don't think that
you'll see any difference using Apache-- unless, of course, there's
more to your situation than meets the eye.

Hope it helps,

-Anthony

On May 18, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Chris wrote:

> I think I need to ask a question before offering any information.
> When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's
> browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of
> servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)?

We have a large java applet that runs in the client's browser window.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Jason Bainbridge
In reply to this post by Chris-9
On 5/18/05, Chris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent.
> > However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server
> > side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database,  or
> > a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind  of
> > intelligence.
> >
> > For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on
> > Servlets and JSP, both based on Java.
> >
> > Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick  to
> > Tomcat.
>
> Ah, okay.  The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was
> to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet.

However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when
serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks
dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see
included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing
some testing by serving your applet under Apache.

Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound
of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the
least...


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http://kde.org - [hidden email]
Personal Site - http://jasonbainbridge.com

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Alan Deikman
In reply to this post by Chris-9
Chris wrote:

> Ah, okay.  The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was
> to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet.

The performance of the applet should have nothing to do with the server
that delivers it, unless perhaps the server happens to be downloading
slower than the user's link would allow.   The applet by definition runs
on the browser's computer, not the server.

A.

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RE: Tomcat vs Apache

Fritz Schneider
In reply to this post by Chris-9
Chris,

Earlier versions of Tomcat were quite a bit slower than Apache when
delivering static pages. For high volume work the preferred solution was to
have Apache listening on port 80, and when it received a request for a page
from in a J2EE context, to forward it to Tomcat, listening on 8080. A
similar connector is used for Microsoft IIS.

Tomcat had a major rewrite for Tomcat 5, and the performance difference on
static pages is now minor. An Apache-to-Tomcat connector is now used for the
following reasons (and probably a few more):

1) History. We started out that way, and there's no reason to change.
2) Expansion. We have been running Apache (or IIS) and we need to add a J2EE
container.
3) Load balancing. We have too many requests for a single server, so we have
Apache take the incoming requests and dole them out to three or four Tomcat
servers.
4) Management. We have a lot of customers. Some need CGI, some need PHP, and
some need J2EE.

I hope this helps,
Fritz

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:39 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache

> Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-)

Thanks.  That was pretty much what I wanted to find out.  BTW, I keep
hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction.  How does that
work?

Chris


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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Dakota Jack
In reply to this post by Anthony Carlos
The dynamic aspect of Tomcat is used to write HTML dynamically.  This
is unrelated to the service of applets.  If all you are doing is
serving an applet, you don't need Tomcat, as your HTML is static.  I
don't know what some of the other replies mean, but this much is
clear.

On 5/18/05, Anthony E. Carlos <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think I need to ask a question before offering any information.
>
> When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's
> browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of
> servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)?
>
> -Anthony
>
> On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:
>
> I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed
> with Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something
> explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a large
> applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead.  Is
> this feasable? TIA.
>
> Chris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Dakota Jack
In reply to this post by Chris-9
For my own education, what the heck is "off-roading"?

On 5/18/05, Chris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-)
>
> Thanks.  That was pretty much what I wanted to find out.  BTW, I keep
> hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction.  How does that
> work?
>
> Chris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Dakota Jack
In reply to this post by Jason Bainbridge
I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more
efficient serving static html.  Is there really any issue on that?  If
so, things sure have changed.  I thought the comparison was like 5 to
1.  Is that no longer true?

On 5/18/05, Jason Bainbridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/18/05, Chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent.
> > > However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server
> > > side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database,  or
> > > a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind  of
> > > intelligence.
> > >
> > > For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on
> > > Servlets and JSP, both based on Java.
> > >
> > > Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick  to
> > > Tomcat.
> >
> > Ah, okay.  The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was
> > to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet.
>
> However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when
> serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks
> dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see
> included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing
> some testing by serving your applet under Apache.
>
> Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound
> of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the
> least...
>
> --
> Jason Bainbridge
> http://kde.org - [hidden email]
> Personal Site - http://jasonbainbridge.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Woodchuck
In reply to this post by Chris-9
hihi,

another (simple) way to think about the difference is that Apache
serves static web pages, whereas Tomcat *can* do some server-side
processing and serve dynamic web pages.

all else being equal (and with no mods installed on Apache such as
CGI/SSI/PHP), everyone visiting an Apache hosted website will see
exactly the same set of web pages.

in contrast, a Tomcat hosted website *can* display different content
for the same requested web page for each visitor.

you can use Tomcat to host totally static websites and not use Apache
if you wanted to.  but Tomcat is meant for dynamic websites that
interact in some way with the user (ie. capture and process user
information) to produce custom results.

hth,
woodchuck


--- Dakota Jack <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The dynamic aspect of Tomcat is used to write HTML dynamically.  This
> is unrelated to the service of applets.  If all you are doing is
> serving an applet, you don't need Tomcat, as your HTML is static.  I
> don't know what some of the other replies mean, but this much is
> clear.
>
> On 5/18/05, Anthony E. Carlos <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think I need to ask a question before offering any information.
> >
> > When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a
> client's
> > browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of
> > servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)?
> >
> > -Anthony
> >
> > On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:
> >
> > I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed
> > with Apache yet.  Could someone explain or point me to something
> > explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache?  I have a
> large
> > applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead.
>  Is
> > this feasable? TIA.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> [hidden email]
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its
> back."
> ~Dakota Jack~
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>


               
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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Chris-9
In reply to this post by Jason Bainbridge
>>Ah, okay.  The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was
>>to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet.
> However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when
> serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks
> dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see
> included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing
> some testing by serving your applet under Apache.
>
> Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound
> of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the
> least...

Basically it's the desktop version of our app redone as an applet.

Chris

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Re: Tomcat vs Apache

Richard Dunn-2
In reply to this post by Dakota Jack
According to benchmarks posted a few months ago, depending on your  
circumstances, that may no longer be true (or it may even be the  
reverse). I don't have the url, but I am sure someone else does, or  
search for the benchmark site.

On May 18, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Dakota Jack wrote:

> I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more
> efficient serving static html.  Is there really any issue on that?  If
> so, things sure have changed.  I thought the comparison was like 5 to
> 1.  Is that no longer true?
>

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RE: Tomcat vs Apache

Mike C
In reply to this post by Dakota Jack

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 2:01 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List; Jason Bainbridge
> Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache
>
>
> I think there is not much question that the Apache server is
> far more efficient serving static html.  Is there really any
> issue on that?  If so, things sure have changed.  I thought
> the comparison was like 5 to 1.  Is that no longer true?



/me awaits an email from Remy or Peter.  ;)


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RE: Tomcat vs Apache

Caldarale, Charles R
In reply to this post by Chris-9
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache
>
> I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more
> efficient serving static html.  Is there really any issue on that?  If
> so, things sure have changed.  I thought the comparison was like 5 to
> 1.  Is that no longer true?

That is definitely no longer true - search the archives for Peter Lin's
test results.  It's not quite parity, but it's close.

 - Chuck


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RE: Tomcat vs Apache

Marco Pöhler
You can find Peter's Benchmarks at
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/articles/benchmark_summary.pdf

kr
Marco
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Am Mittwoch, den 18.05.2005, 16:50 -0500 schrieb Caldarale, Charles R:

> > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache
> >
> > I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more
> > efficient serving static html.  Is there really any issue on that?  If
> > so, things sure have changed.  I thought the comparison was like 5 to
> > 1.  Is that no longer true?
>
> That is definitely no longer true - search the archives for Peter Lin's
> test results.  It's not quite parity, but it's close.
>
>  - Chuck
>
>
> THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
> MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail
> and its attachments from all computers.
>
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