channelSendOptions default may cause problems

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channelSendOptions default may cause problems

Jean-frederic Clere-3
Hi,

While testing the tomcat clustering I have noted that at the start from
time to the attribute replication is failing.
While debugging I have the messages:
+++
05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-6]
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_DELTA Manager
[localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session delta for unknown session
[596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.045 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.messageReceived Manager
[localhost#/demo-1.0]: Received SessionMessage of
type=[SESSION-MODIFIED] from
[org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.MemberImpl[tcp://{10, 128, 2,
182}:4000,{10, 128, 2, 182},4000, alive=10037, securePort=-1, UDP
Port=-1, id={-87 87 4 -12 89 -46 96 94 12 20 -103 -109 -56 120 -16 74 },
payload={}, command={}, domain={}]]
05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_CREATED
Manager [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session created message for
session [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]

+++
It looks like the delta is processed before the session creation and it
is ignored.

When using the channelSendOptions="6" I am NOT getting the "received
session delta for unknown session" and the stuff is working perfectly.

Should we change the default for channelSendOptions to 6? - the actual
value is 8 -

--
Cheers

Jean-Frederic

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Re: channelSendOptions default may cause problems

remm
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:58 AM jean-frederic clere <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> While testing the tomcat clustering I have noted that at the start from
> time to the attribute replication is failing.
> While debugging I have the messages:
> +++
> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-6]
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_DELTA Manager
> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session delta for unknown session
> [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.045 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.messageReceived Manager
> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: Received SessionMessage of
> type=[SESSION-MODIFIED] from
> [org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.MemberImpl[tcp://{10, 128, 2,
> 182}:4000,{10, 128, 2, 182},4000, alive=10037, securePort=-1, UDP
> Port=-1, id={-87 87 4 -12 89 -46 96 94 12 20 -103 -109 -56 120 -16 74 },
> payload={}, command={}, domain={}]]
> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_CREATED
> Manager [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session created message for
> session [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
>
> +++
> It looks like the delta is processed before the session creation and it
> is ignored.
>
> When using the channelSendOptions="6" I am NOT getting the "received
> session delta for unknown session" and the stuff is working perfectly.
>
> Should we change the default for channelSendOptions to 6? - the actual
> value is 8 -
>

The documentation for the values is here:
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-10.0-doc/config/cluster.html#SimpleTcpCluster_Attributes

So the default is the fastest, but if it's not reliable for many reasonable
use cases it may not be a good idea.

Rémy


>
> --
> Cheers
>
> Jean-Frederic
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: channelSendOptions default may cause problems

Christopher Schultz-2
Rémy and Jean-Frederic,

On 1/6/21 06:20, Rémy Maucherat wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:58 AM jean-frederic clere <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While testing the tomcat clustering I have noted that at the start from
>> time to the attribute replication is failing.
>> While debugging I have the messages:
>> +++
>> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-6]
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_DELTA Manager
>> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session delta for unknown session
>> [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
>> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.045 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.messageReceived Manager
>> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: Received SessionMessage of
>> type=[SESSION-MODIFIED] from
>> [org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.MemberImpl[tcp://{10, 128, 2,
>> 182}:4000,{10, 128, 2, 182},4000, alive=10037, securePort=-1, UDP
>> Port=-1, id={-87 87 4 -12 89 -46 96 94 12 20 -103 -109 -56 120 -16 74 },
>> payload={}, command={}, domain={}]]
>> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_CREATED
>> Manager [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session created message for
>> session [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
>>
>> +++
>> It looks like the delta is processed before the session creation and it
>> is ignored.
>>
>> When using the channelSendOptions="6" I am NOT getting the "received
>> session delta for unknown session" and the stuff is working perfectly.
>>
>> Should we change the default for channelSendOptions to 6? - the actual
>> value is 8 -
>>
>
> The documentation for the values is here:
> http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-10.0-doc/config/cluster.html#SimpleTcpCluster_Attributes
>
> So the default is the fastest, but if it's not reliable for many reasonable
> use cases it may not be a good idea.

I would always recommend the most stable and reliable defaults for any
system. If an admin wants to relax those defaults to e.g. get better
performance with some trade-offs, at least they make that change
(theoretically) with the knowledge of those trade-offs.

At some point, I think we should enable strict servlet compliance by
default with a forthcoming major release like 10.1 or whatever.

-chris

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Re: channelSendOptions default may cause problems

Romain Manni-Bucau
Hi all,

What about picking any of both value as default and if value is not
explicit (we can use Integer and if null we default on 6 or 8 whatever you
prefer) then we log like 5 lines of text writing more or less what is in
the doc and saying to the user a default was set but he must set what fits
his app and explicitly configure it.
Don't think we can find the good default for this trade off (between perf
and reliability) for prod but we should stay working OOTB in dev and
"first" env (like functional, dev, test ones) IMHO.

Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
<https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance>


Le mer. 6 janv. 2021 à 15:37, Christopher Schultz <
[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Rémy and Jean-Frederic,
>
> On 1/6/21 06:20, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:58 AM jean-frederic clere <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> While testing the tomcat clustering I have noted that at the start from
> >> time to the attribute replication is failing.
> >> While debugging I have the messages:
> >> +++
> >> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-6]
> >> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_DELTA Manager
> >> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session delta for unknown session
> >> [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
> >> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.045 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
> >> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.messageReceived Manager
> >> [localhost#/demo-1.0]: Received SessionMessage of
> >> type=[SESSION-MODIFIED] from
> >> [org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.MemberImpl[tcp://{10, 128, 2,
> >> 182}:4000,{10, 128, 2, 182},4000, alive=10037, securePort=-1, UDP
> >> Port=-1, id={-87 87 4 -12 89 -46 96 94 12 20 -103 -109 -56 120 -16 74 },
> >> payload={}, command={}, domain={}]]
> >> 05-Jan-2021 10:25:07.046 FINE [Tribes-Task-Receiver[Catalina-Channel]-5]
> >> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.handleSESSION_CREATED
> >> Manager [localhost#/demo-1.0]: received session created message for
> >> session [596AEB7A68DE2D8F6B9819D4F4F55CDA]
> >>
> >> +++
> >> It looks like the delta is processed before the session creation and it
> >> is ignored.
> >>
> >> When using the channelSendOptions="6" I am NOT getting the "received
> >> session delta for unknown session" and the stuff is working perfectly.
> >>
> >> Should we change the default for channelSendOptions to 6? - the actual
> >> value is 8 -
> >>
> >
> > The documentation for the values is here:
> >
> http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-10.0-doc/config/cluster.html#SimpleTcpCluster_Attributes
> >
> > So the default is the fastest, but if it's not reliable for many
> reasonable
> > use cases it may not be a good idea.
>
> I would always recommend the most stable and reliable defaults for any
> system. If an admin wants to relax those defaults to e.g. get better
> performance with some trade-offs, at least they make that change
> (theoretically) with the knowledge of those trade-offs.
>
> At some point, I think we should enable strict servlet compliance by
> default with a forthcoming major release like 10.1 or whatever.
>
> -chris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>